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Thames Ironworks 11:05 Fri Aug 30
The God concept

The whole concept of God and a higher power, which is all governing and seeing fascinates me. How we can use this concept as a means of control but also as a means of dealing with day to day life.

But is it a concept where there are items we cannot control that govern life, i.e. storms, plague, disease or is it our way of putting a face to the physics we do not understand? Or the most extreme is there a race we are slaves to out in the universe?

I am not religious at all, but I find it interesting and I wonder that if we ever overcome the items we lack control of, whether the concept of God will disappear.

Discuss

Mike Oxsaw 8:32 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

For me. religious people not relinquishing outdated (organised) religion is the "black mark on the copy book" against them.

They may very well be highly intelligent people and be able to solve many problems intractable to the likes of me, but in refusing to accept there's no need for religeon stops them moving up another level in the intelligence stakes.

The societal part - the congregation, helping others in the community and various similar activities don't need religion to enable them.

WHU(Exeter) 7:41 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

And it's your stance that prevents a sound basis for reasonable discussion, not mine.

WHU(Exeter) 7:40 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

So because I don't believe there is a God, I am naturally not allowed or able to argue the point that I don't think those who do are less educated than those who don't?

That's quite presumptious of you.

gph 7:38 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Although it's a great way to claim that I'm brighter than almost every genius born before the 19th century, I don't think it's tenable to say that religious people are all thick...

Shame, really.

Willtell 7:29 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Oh OK. So you don't believe in god but argue with someone that thinks there isn't a god and that most believers are uneducated .

Yup sound basis for a reasonable discussion except I'm celebrating a 2-0 win that should have been 4-0 and think you're telling porkies so will move on mate....

WHU(Exeter) 7:11 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Because I don't like sweeping generalisations I suppose. I like to find out about things that I find interesting and often find that when I do it smashes to pieces assumptions that I've made myself and then look at things in a different way to how I might have before. It is all opinions and if mine are wrong, then they are wrong, but I don't agree that those who believe in God are less intelligent than atheists and I'm also of the opinion that religion has led to advancement as well as holding people back.

Willtell 7:04 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Yes mate so why do you spend time arguing for religion then?

WHU(Exeter) 6:59 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Yeah, except I'm not actually a believer and I don't go to church...

Apart from that, spot on.

Willtell 5:52 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

WHU(Exeter) 10:29 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept
WIlltell, I would contest that view every day of the week.


Of course you would. You're a believer we know that. You talk about people in your church and most of those will have either gone to religious schools, had deeply religious parents or have been through trauma or are in depression about the modern world.

The answer is not to be found in a church. It's in a positive, achieving and generous outlook on life. Then you find that the gods are on your side.

Well that;s what I found. Half-time over so - May your god go with you...

Mike Oxsaw 4:24 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Manuel 4:04 Sat Aug 31

I bow to the deflecting voice of obvious extensive personal experience.

Manuel 4:04 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

You truly are a lonely man, Oxbore.

Mike Oxsaw 4:01 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

WHU(Exeter) 2:56 Sat Aug 31

OK - fully accept that point.

Maybe the difference was/is that their new updated guide book is less strict and demanding, so from that angle there is less "religiousness" in their system, but the followers are just as devout from their own perspective.

Personally, I don't think my religious beliefs - or lack of them - are anybody's business but mine and they have no place in influencing others. Likewise theirs on mine.

One thing I have noticed though is that in Muslim states, if religion ever comes up and I'm asked, I always say I have none. This is always (ALWAYS) met with utter disbelief. "But," they say, "you MUST believe in a god, even if it's not Allah".

Yet another indication (to me) of an indoctrination.

In more Christian countries, non-belief is accepted - in some places that acceptance is more enforced tolerance though.

In Buddhist countries the response to my answer to the same question is invariably an "As if I really care, that's YOUR outlook" shrug of the shoulders.

gph 3:55 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

I don't think all Protestants are less fanatical.

Aren't the God hates Fags lot prods, for example?

Although Westboro always makes me think of Marlboro...

SUM A DING WONG 3:06 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Im thinking out loud here - so i apologise if what im about to write doesnt make sense - yes, i know, no change there.

To me,( to you)the Protestant religion seems for people who aren't really religious, but, just don't want to say they're atheists, either - hedging their bets, so to speak.

I suppose you can argue Catholics can be Catholic but not be really religious (or deep down not believe in god).

But, by being Protestant, it is one step closer to saying you don't really believe in god?

I don't have a strong opinion on this and maybe im completely wrong.

It's just my gut feeling on the whole Protestant/Catholic thing.

WHU(Exeter) 2:56 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

*less religious

WHU(Exeter) 2:55 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Mike, I know that. It was still a religious movement though, just with different interpretations and it didn't make people any less religious, just in the same way as when the Eastern Orthodox Church broke off from Rome it didn't make them any religious.

Manip 2:48 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

God is the Sun.

FACT.

Mike Oxsaw 2:35 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

WHU(Exeter) 2:30 Sat Aug 31

Interesting. And worthy of more research than the flippant reply I'm about to give:

Protestant is rooted in protest - that is a revolution against the establishment, which, at the time was. I believe (see what I done there?) run by the Roman Catholic church - from...wait for it... Rome.

Mike Oxsaw 2:30 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Sussex_IRONS 2:02 Sat Aug 31

Maybe Rees-Mogg uses the church (congregation & connections) in the same way a drunk uses a lamp post.

WHU(Exeter) 2:30 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

Mike, thinking about it though, the examples you've given earlier point to religion holding a people back. On the flip side thought the opposite has also been true, it's been used as a driving force, hence terms like Protestant work ethic.

gph 2:29 Sat Aug 31
Re: The God concept

There are very few countries on Earth which have both above average income (measured by the national mean) and religiosity (measured by average number of times a day an adult prays).

Of the 102 studied here,

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/08/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations

the US was the only one.

(I'm guessing they left out Saudi Arabia, or included the income of non-nationals there).

Of course, the survey says nothing about whether lack of wealth causes religiosity or vice versa (outside the US). My guess is the former.

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